I heard that, too

Mr. Rove has told investigators that he learned from the columnist the name of the C.I.A. officer, who was referred to by her maiden name, Valerie Plame, and the circumstances in which her husband, former Ambassador Joseph C. Wilson IV, traveled to Africa to investigate possible uranium sales to Iraq, [someone who has been officially briefed on the matter said.]

After hearing Mr. Novak's account, the person who has been briefed on the matter said, Mr. Rove told the columnist: "I heard that, too."

[...]

The person who provided the information about Mr. Rove's conversation with Mr. Novak declined to be identified, citing requests by Mr. Fitzgerald that no one discuss the case. The person discussed the matter in the belief that Mr. Rove was truthful in saying that he had not disclosed Ms. Wilson's identity.

  NY Times article

Catapulting the propaganda.

Raw Story interviews Joe Wilson, who believes Scooter Libby is the other Novak source, and talks of a hand-written letter he received from Poppy Bush after the outing of his wife. I wonder if his wife got a hand-written letter.

The interview concludes with a discussion of America's future:

Raw Story: Do you think the American experiment is over and/or do you think America will survive the events of the last several years? I asked this same question of Scott Ritter, who believes that America is far too resilient not to survive, but that the process would be lengthy and painful. What do you think?

Wilson: The good thing about our system is that we are a nation of laws and it is hard to subvert those laws for an extended period of time. The difference between us and say, fascism in either Italy or Spain, is that we have a settled Constitution and a settled history and there have been challenges that have been beaten back. We also have institutions which have withstood the buffeting of the political winds. We have demonstrated that during the Civil War, during the McCarthy era, during Vietnam, and so forth. There is every reason to expect the pendulum to swing back, but it will not swing back on its own. Which is why it is so important for the citizens, the press, and the Congress to begin to speak up more loudly and begin to push the pendulum back.

Those who believe that the pendulum will swing back naturally have forgotten the lessons of the communists in Russia and the lessons of the fascists in Spain. In Russia, it took from 1917 to 1990 (circa) to drive the Communists out of power and in Spain it took from 1936-39 to 1975-76 and Franco's death to drive the fascists out of power. So we may be in for a long ride.

Raw Story: What do you do if the Congress is compromised or rather, paralyzed?

Wilson: I think the Congress needs to find its voice. One of the reasons I was so active in the 2004 campaign is that I believed that 2004 was a referendum on us as a country or certainly seen as that by the rest of the world. If President Bush had not won, I think the rest of the world would have understood that this administration was an aberration, operating largely outside of the parameters of the American political system. His reelection reinforces the notion that America has gone in a very different direction.

I think that the rest of the world, despite the differences it had with specific U.S. policies in the past, still saw the United States as a land of opportunity and something to aspire to. I think that is over now. They see us now as they see other nations with imperialist notions who are willing to drive their own soldiers across foreign lands.

Raw Story: And now we see that Iraq and Iran have just signed a military treaty. Is that what we wanted?

Wilson: Iran is the big winner in this.

Raw Story: Is the goal a fundamentalist military conglomerate? Is that what we wanted?

Wilson: Sitting right on the border of the Kuwait and eastern Saudi oil fields...

Raw Story: Right, if that is what we wanted…

Wilson: Then we have achieved it.